Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Within WordPress, the podcast about WordPress.
With us today for the second time is Raquel.
Good morning to you.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Yes, it is morning here. Not for you.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Very much not. So, no.
I'm very happy to have you on the podcast again because between the previous recording and this recording, we've been in the same room, haven't we?
Wait, that sounds very ominous. Hold on.
We've been at the same event. That's a safer one. Geez.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. That's funny. It's usually me sticking my foot in my mouth in front of you. This time it was you.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: You know what I also like? I like that we're both wearing the same colors, black, yellow, and red.
And I mean, I like it. I like them.
But we'll. Did we or did we not?
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Okay, we are. We are pretty aligned.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: So see, there you go. There you go.
The last time we were in a big room at the same event, it was hosted and organized by you, obviously with help.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Press conf.
And I think so speaking personally, for me, it was one of the most challenging conferences I've ever been to because I spoke and I spoke about a topic that is not easy to talk about.
That said, it was also one of the nicest and most pleasant conferences I've ever been to. And I've been to quite a few.
Yeah, I did a count not too long ago. I'm somewhere between 70 and 80, so that tracks.
WordPress related 1. I've obviously been to more than just that, but I really wanted to take the opportunity to talk about the event, your experience in organizing and the actual days, and have people understand who are listening to this, what that's like. And, and I don't want to sound like an advertising commercial already, but also want to make it really clear why they should have been there, because I think they should have. I think the conversation that were had there were the ones to have and a lot of good already came from those. At least for me already. So. Yeah, but. So let's start with the first question.
How are you now?
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Okay. I was like, that's it.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: Silence.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: No, that's my favorite question these days. Cause it's so easy to just say good. But like, I am so, so. Well, I'm so. Well, I'm just like, I feel like daily beaming and I'm highly emotional in like a sensitive way. Like everything is just evoking emotions in this, like, awareness of how beautiful this world and this life is.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: That's very profound.
That's very profound. And all this is related to the event happening or the release thereafter, or.
Can you share a little bit about that?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Yeah, all of it. I mean, the event happening is very, very representative of me in my life and what it meant for it to happen.
And so, yeah, there's definitely a high that comes from that.
But also there's much in my life that I was.
I felt like feeling guilty for neglecting.
And what I've really been, I guess, totally realizing is that it wasn't neglect. It was just a time of my life that I was going through and I made choices. And as I think about it today, this month of May, I look back and those choices were right.
And now this month, post the event, I've been able to like, catch back up on what I've called life debt.
That's like my little word for it.
And I just have been giving myself so much grace and not holding anything against me and more like for back then, because back then I was beating myself up. And now that I'm here, recognizing I made those choices, I don't regret them. And I'm getting the time to redeem the sacrifices I made. And it's just been incredible. I really, really been enjoying this month.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: It sounds like it. Yeah, it sounds like it was restored, restorative. What is it?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Redeeming? It's funny, I'm post religious, but I still can't help but use a lot of the terms still, you know, they're.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Not beholden to the religion. We can do that.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: So you. So it essentially. Let's call it four days, the event. So technically there's two conference days, one VIP day and one gathering day, I should say.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: I kind of like to ask you basically about all. All four days in whatever sequence that makes sense to you, because I'm aware very much that the.
There's different things you get out of different days, certainly as an organizer.
So whatever you'd like to share about that. How was that for you?
[00:05:57] Speaker B: I mean, for looking at it from a macro of all four, it was everything, exactly how I intended it to be and more.
And that part still blows my mind because, I mean, you were with me for so much of the pre. Process from like the time it was just an idea to it during the actual planning and then it happening.
And all the while, no matter what, at least for me, there's these moments of like, what the hell have I done?
Why have I, like, is this gonna work?
And there's these moments where there's no doubt in my mind it's gonna work. And so then when it happened, day one, day two, day three, day four, it just went off exactly how I intended it to happen. And even so much of it. Yes. Was homage resurrection to pressnomics.
But I knew this was not pressnomics. This is now press conf. And it's my spin on it.
And with that, and then Also the state WordPress has been in, and then my vision that I then got for it, and the speakers, the opening social, the VIP day, the after parties, the in between parties, it was just, it was just magic. It was witchcraft.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: See, I was nodding at magic and witchcraft. I go like, hold on, hold on. That means, okay, have I been witchcraft?
[00:07:37] Speaker B: There's times I feel that way. I'm like, like, did someone just cast a spell? What is happening?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, let's get it straight. Witchcraft may sound negative, but it's also very, very positive if you set positive intent. So I'm assuming you set positive intents for all of.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I'm just forever for whomever is listening and having trouble to translate. Witchcraft. Positive.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: Um, but it's essentially you, you, you set a particular. This is what I want to feel. This is what I want to do. This is how I want the, the visitors to feel, the speakers to feel. To feel. And the end result is that is exactly what happened and more.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah, very much.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, I, you know, I, I, I, I was there for the four days, so I, Yeah, I, I can only say I co. Sign because I see and felt what use you are referencing.
Let's, let's.
The first day, people on the Wednesday, I think, for the most part, started dropping in.
What's that like when you start realizing, oh, okay, this is really happening now?
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it's funny because people were coming even as early as Sunday, and I felt like Taco Taco came Sunday, and I felt a little like, oh, dang it. Okay, maybe I should have been in here early as well. But Monday and Tuesday, I was at the hotel every day just prepping and getting ready for the event.
And then each of those days, people were trickling in also.
So then Wednesday I took that morning, and I was just like, chill. Like, I actually intended to wake up still at 5 and go work out. But I didn't get to bed till stupid late because I ended up going to dinner with some word pressers. You know how it goes the night before.
But my whole intention for that morning was to just, like, slowly just have some Raquel time, get Ready? Wash my hair. I don't, I wash my hair like twice a week, so that's a big deal. And you know, and just be in my thoughts and reflect. Not really look at slack.
And so by the time I got to the venue around noonish, you know, it was just go time, you know, and you could just tell that it was just happening. Like I went right to the ballroom to set up and like Matt Medeiros and I call them the bros of WordPress like Mark Szymansky, Kevin Ge and. Yeah, exactly, those are my bros.
And they come in and we're just talking and just picking up where we leave off every time we're in person and you know, and there was, it was moments like that it was seeing the team there setting up and the setup's so much easier than like a word camp just cause it's smaller and more intimate and then even like being able to go to my hotel room around 4 and just take in that afternoon to just chill before the social started.
So just a couple of hours of just of just being able to have downtime, it's just like that just doesn't happen really. And the only reason why it happened is because everything was implemented as it should be.
And I trusted everyone around me, not even just my team, but the attendees. Like we knew what we were doing, we're seasoned. And then. Yeah, the social was so sweet.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: It was, it was very relaxed, very chill. Like you kind of smoothly rolling into it is how I felt it.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Would you like if you had to give a percentage to the people, to the attendees, what percentage was known to you and what percentage was entirely new? First time?
Because I've seen new people and I don't know how many of them you saw as well.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Totally.
I would say I maybe I think high possibility. I knew 90% so good, probably 10% I didn't know. Which maybe does the same for you.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: I was going to put it at.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: 20, but yeah, I debated between 80.
But maybe that makes sense because there were some locals that I did know that weren't exactly, you know, part of the greater WordPress community, but the local community.
So. Yeah, and that I love that because I was really hoping there would be some people I didn't know, you know.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I saw quite a few. And, and I'm mentioning this because I'm. I'm reckoning that most of the people listening to this are not never been to possibly not even the US WordCampus or any WordPress event, but particularly Prestomics or Press conf now.
And I want them to understand that it's very open to come there even if you haven't ever been and just don't know anybody. Mark and Christian asked me a question when I barged into their interview. I saw that, yeah, that was funny.
But one of the questions they asked like, so what would you recommend for anybody considering this? And my answer was very, very simple. Just show up.
Like there's, there's connections, there's. There's information, there's. There's methods, there's tools, there's all this inspiration to be found to be had to, to internalize.
But you need to show up. And I get how uncomfortable that can be.
But it's. I think it's one of those events where it's very hard to actually explain certainly from an attendees perspective what you actually get out of it.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: What was your intent in terms of organizing? So the two, the two event days, if you had sort of create a tldr, this is what you'll get after spending two days listening to people.
And do explain a little bit about the format because it's quite unique in terms of one room and just one track and all that.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying to think of where to start. I guess the format is a good place to start.
Yeah, One room, one track and expectation. High. High.
Trying to think of another word for expectation but like yeah, just expectation that we're all going to be in the sessions together.
And one of my intentions for that was that it wouldn't be like pulling teeth, that it would be natural and to get people to go to a session because like a word camp, it could be like pulling teeth sometimes.
So really a lot of that came in with the speakers, the actual speakers themselves. Big names, just names that people. Doesn't even matter what the topic is, they're going to want to watch them. You were one of those.
And then the topics around what the speakers talked on.
And then during the sessions, you know, we wanted to give padding or I guess the whole day we wanted there to be padding to go like use the restroom, go get a snack after each. In between each session and then maybe even kind of debrief with people around you. But then that there would just be this like, oh, but we got the next one starting. Let's go in because we want to see this, you know, so. And it's smaller and more intimate and close. Close in proximity. We're all in this hotel resort together. Courtyard, ballroom, snack shack, restrooms.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: There's so there's that was a wonderful snack shack.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: It's prolific.
Everybody loves it.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: I had more than my fair share.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: I mean, that's what you do. It's okay to have them for these events, but I'm glad you had more than your fair share.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Full of mission here. I was way past my share.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: I like it because we pay for that. So I'm like, everyone eat it. Let's make the snack shack go, like, empty.
But. But having everything so close in proximity is. Is less chance for attrition, essentially. You know, like, everyone's going to be easily accessible to going back into the room.
And so in that sense, that, that, that, I mean, I guess that is basically the format. You know, one track, everyone's together for all of it. You feel like you're all taking breaks together, getting a snack together, going back in the room together, watching together, and then ending.
And then the. The other part of the question.
What was it again? It was that. How do I feel that it went? Like, the expectations. Yeah, like, I mean, that part especially blew my mind.
I feel like, like I've said, the entire event just was exactly I intended it to be. But I personally feel unbelievably privileged and gifted that the speakers showed up with the topics they showed up with.
I forget who it was. It might have been Mark or Christian. Asked me which talk stood out the most to me, and it's really hard to answer because I am not a pick a favorite girl because I have lots of favorites. That is Raquel. That's a way to describe Raquel. It's like everything's my favorite.
But I honestly said, even though it is reflective, I think of most of the speakers, but mine was you.
And it just kind of came out because your talk was so vulnerable. And I saw you in a way I don't typically see you in a way nobody typically sees you. And you are this tall, strong Dutch man that picks up heavy stones and you're just up on stage being a little boy in all the right ways.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Making me blush now.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: Well, I'm going to cry. There's just no way. I'm not going to cry because, like, we're talking about my passion, where my passion, my talent meets, that it's going to happen at some point in this video call, but that, you know, like. And when I asked you, you know, basically same thing I asked most speakers is like, inspire us, challenge us, make us cry.
And that's what happened. And you did all three. And all the speakers, in a sense, came with it that way. It's like every single one of them, even the ones that maybe weren't the most received, they still poured their heart out on that stage.
And, yeah, this isn't about me, but this is, in essence, in part ways, it is about me because, yeah, it's.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: An extension of you.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And everyone said yes when I said, will you speak? And everyone said yes when I said, will you share from your heart? This won't be recorded, but, like, this is what we need right now. This is what WordPress needs and I care and I want to see our future continue.
So will you. And they said yes. And so when you look at it, the expectations of those two days and the fact that these speakers showed up with their heart on their sleeve and that they were accepted by the audience and everyone just got so much value from the speakers.
I mean, that part just sticks with me so much.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: First of all, thank you for that wonderful compliment.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: You're welcome.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: I've done, I don't know how many talks, but a lot. Like 30, 40, whatever. This is the one talk that I've. I've never in my life have gotten so much positive. And. And when I say positive, I mean with tears and all the things.
Types of feedback.
Like, I.
So, yes, standing on stage, being as vulnerable as I was, explaining to people the things, how I see them and how I've, you know, the. I'm not going to dive too much into the topic, but essentially there's struggle and we all need to learn how to overcome, and there's ways to do that and certain approaches and, and things like that.
But the amount of feedback that I've gotten and the, the amount of people that came up to me with tears in their eyes, like, I couldn't have fathomed that. Like, when I arrived at Wednesday, I still wasn't 100 sure what I was actually going to say.
Yeah, it's like, it's that difficult. I mean, I knew it, but I didn't know it. Like, you know what, you know what I'm saying?
[00:21:03] Speaker B: There's like, no, totally.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: How. How deep do I go? And then right before I go on stage, you bring on your kids. That's when I lost it.
It's like, how am I going to stand there on stage and like, Jesus.
And. Well, you know, we. We saw what happened. But that, that was.
I think what I'm trying to. Because this, this is.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: I put you on the side now.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: No, no, it's fine, it's fine.
What I'm trying to make clear is that the Environment. You set the tone that you said.
And you know, that includes the organizing part. That is not you. So all the other guys and gals. Yeah, that's the MCs. They did a wonderful job.
Brian and Adam. Yeah, they did a wonderful job of setting the right tone.
And then it becomes easier. And then hearing the feedback and understanding how many people felt touched by it, inspired by it. There's people quoting me as like, did I say that? I don't remember saying that. Like, okay.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: I know what you mean. Yeah, that's so funny.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: It's wild. But what I mostly want to make very clear for anybody listening, the learning doesn't always have to be on the exact business approach.
And yet we were all talking about business.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Because in a way, it connects to our business, to the, the tool we work with, the community that comes with it, but it's still the business.
And yeah, that's a long winded of saying thank you.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: You know, one of my favorite parts for your audience, for everyone to know, is I'd never seen you so nervous as long as I've ever known you. And you were like coming up and whispering to me, like, I don't even remember what you said, but I was like, I've never seen remkes like this ever.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: No, no, I've never been this nervous in my life.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: And it was really cool.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: I. I have the same thing as pretty much anybody who jumps on a stage. You have that 32nd of, of jittering and then that fades out. I.
I had 40 minutes of jittering and, and whatever comes after it was just super weird. Like, and then I had it hours before I woke up.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Really early that.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: I was giving the talk. Yeah. Way too early. Like five o' clock or something.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: And I was no longer suffering from jet lag. I was like, why am I awake this early? Because it only makes it harder now.
Yeah, but, so there's an importance. There's a thing I want to make super clear.
There's thoughts and ideas I want to have come across correctly.
And that's a tough thing to have a safe space for at an event. And for that, I want to congratulate you on having that event. Exact environment where that was perfectly to do.
And there were more. There was not just me who were. Who were feeling very much at home and comfortable to speak on whatever topic and, you know, whatever way they wanted. And that's, that's a hell of an achievement to, to make happen. So you should be very proud of that.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: I'm so proud. It's hard to not be proud and so grateful at the same time. Because it's like, I very much. It's, yes. And it's like, yes, I did that, but also WordPress did that. Like the community did that. So, yeah, it's a gift from me and to me at the same time.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's a good, that's a good summary in terms of the.
Can you share a little bit about the percentage of people that were selected to speak versus applied to speak? Is there.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: 100% were selected.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Okay, so then my next question is, what were you looking for?
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Really?
By the time started thinking about speakers, it sort of happened organically.
And what I was looking for happened as we were searching.
And also it was because of what happened with WordPress and the drama.
And it became clear that, yes, this is the Business of WordPress conference, but we're in a state of crisis and we need some more. We need some vulnerability and some human, human humanity in connection with each other. And so at the beginning, the very first people that came to mind were as high up as we could with WordPress and with WP Engine, for instance, because for me, the very beginning was like, everyone's invited and we're gonna, like, work together and get better together.
So we invited.
And that's how we got Mary. And Mary was one of the first to be confirmed. And, and then we did invite WP Engine, but they weren't able to. But they did sponsor from there. It was, there's a little bit of, like, it is still business. So there.
Some were like, I know you're a big name.
So like, for instance, Rich Tabor. And so Rich was the first technically confirmed speaker, and I love that conversation because Rich and I have known each other for a very long time, and we met at pressnomics. It's the first time we, we met.
And, and he, and I'm like, rich, you're so polished and you're so talented. You're so amazing, but can you get up on that stage and show us parts of you that we've not seen? And that was a lot of fun to be able to, like, get that.
Did you. Because I felt like he did. I was like, what?
[00:27:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think he delivered.
I don't, I don't know if I agree with the, with the image he created on my likeness. I don't know if that was.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: I mean, I feel you, I feel you.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: The, the AI thing he generated.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Like, okay, yes, I, I, I felt like I look like Maribel from Encanto, that movie. Like, I look just like her. It's like.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: That was fun.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Yeah. But then it just sort of just kept from there. There was a few, like, people had. There was a couple who had reached out and said, like, hey, are you looking for speakers? And, you know, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll let you know. And then, like, light bulb. And I'm like, oh, my God, we need to have them. So they would have been reached out to regardless if they reached out to me first.
And it just became this, like, who has a story that I desire people to hear? One of those, for instance, was Miriam, has seven children, you know, lives in a war zone and is a badass. I just was like, like, we have to hear from her. Like, that was, you know, like. Like, things like that. Like, that's how a lot of the people ended up coming about. Same thing with you. I was like, remkis, like, I already know. It's like we. I know you and I have had so many good talks just personally, and we both, I think, have so much alignment with how we view this world and the betterment of this world. And I'm like, WordPress needs to hear this right now. Like, that. It just. Every single one of the speakers basically came out of this idea of who needs to share, has something to share and who do we need to hear from and how can it impact us right now. Every single one of them.
Every single one of them had a story with, like. With that either, like, I already knew the story that we wanted them, that I wanted the WordPress to hear, or. Or I was like, hey, I know you got something in there. Let us know. And they delivered.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: I agree. I think they. I think they all did there. I think for the most part, there was like a secondary business layer.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Because like, like you just said, it's. It's very much about lessons learned and stories, stories that were shared that in many different ways you could pick up on and reflect on and, you know, apply those learnings in your business life. That's how I saw it.
If you look at the next edition, what would you think to do the thing most differently and what would you absolutely keep the same in terms of talks and speakers and things of that. Because maybe I should preface this by saying when you asked me to speak, you didn't steer me in any particular direction other than maybe slight hint into what you would like to hear, but Which I listened to and did, but that's it. I had nothing more other than at A certain point, other slides and like my first answer was no. And the evening before it was yes, but, you know, those were just words.
But just to say that there is, there's a direction and there wasn't, you know, there wasn't a very clear direction.
How are you going to do it for the next edition? Because I'm assuming there's going to be next edition, right?
[00:31:08] Speaker B: Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. That's interesting.
This time for the first iteration, there was definitely a lot of, obviously I've explained a lot of it, but there was almost every single speaker I already knew and there was a trusted relationship already built between us.
So much like our conversation, it was kind of open. Here are the umbrella points I want you to stick under. But you had freedom and autonomy to choose how that would happen.
And so going forward, I've been thinking about that. I was like, okay, so how does this need to look the same and where does it need to change? So the same still single track?
Yeah, I mean, pretty much that would be the same. But I would like to add a little bit more padding for more hallway conversation because we still do as a community, appreciate that. And so maybe that means less, maybe one less talk.
I'm not sure just yet, but that is something I want to look at.
And then also ticking. And I know, I'm sure there's others that have the same feedback, but Katie Keith has been pretty open to say to actually have a little bit more business y talks. Definitely. I think like our agency panel really did talk about business.
But like you said, a lot of our talks were life and business. And to that point, little asterisk. Every time I'm at in some sort of talk that I happen to be a talk, as soon as they start telling a story, my ears perk up. And it's like oftentimes that's what I go away with is that story. And that story is usually applicable to business. And so that was the majority of our talks. But next time around I am curious about how we can talk about business in a very specific way between certain talks.
So maybe a little bit more of that. I definitely don't want to ever get away from the vulnerability and the humaning together aspect. I think that's what separates this from other conferences. And that's the whole reason why we don't record back to the same.
Still not record sessions.
Yeah. So I thought about do we do a call for speakers?
I still am not even sure about that. I really like hand selecting. I also love the idea of a Referral, you know, like so and so saying, hey, you really got to get this one. So maybe that's what our call for speakers looks like is a referral for speakers.
[00:33:52] Speaker A: I like that.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Not exactly sure. But. But that, that those are some ways that I've already been thinking about what's going to be the same for next year in regards to speakers format and then. And then what I want to see change or get better.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, however wonderful something is, there's always room for improvement or modulation that potentially has the, the possibility for improvement on a. On a particular font front.
I mean, one thing that I think is hardly. You can hardly improve is the, the snack corner. Like that was.
I. I got. I got a shout out. A shout out to the snack corner again.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: So funny people are like warm cookies. There were warm cookies?
[00:34:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was a whole bunch of everything type of stuff. So.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Yeah, thankfully that was all the venue. All I did was pay for it.
[00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: No, but I mean, I think the hardest thing might possibly not be the first event that you do, but the repeat because the first one figuring out is just your, Your, you know, your blank. You. Yeah, you pick and you go in that direction and then make the best of the direction you've chosen because it's very hard to change the direction of an event. And you know, I, I know as in I've been organizing wordcamps since 20. Sorry 2009, and also well over 15, 16 different versions. So. Yeah, going from that first one to the next one, that is difficult.
If the, if the business approach were to be more businessy, what kind of topics are you thinking?
I mean, are we shooting straight to acquisitions and mergers or like.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, what kind of.
I still land right now with key takeaways for your current business, and I do love when it comes to mergers and acquisitions stories shared.
So, like, if we were to focus on that, then it would probably be some story we want to hear about.
Maybe I'll have Josh come get down to the nitty gritty with what happened when they sold you Big Josh. Go daddy.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: I mean, really certain. I know the number, but.
Yeah, but you know, like, especially because a lot of times they're not able to say for a certain amount of years, you know, and then. But I think where I definitely want to see is more talks on the future of tech, you know, and how we need to apply that to our business.
We can't ignore AI and, you know, and just WordPress as a project.
So I definitely want to see something there that is super, super applicable and challenging. I guess when I think of business, that's really where I want to see us get challenged as a community.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: I like that. I like that approach.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah. That it's. Go ahead.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: Like b. Business learnings, I think is probably. And then obviously the stories that go with it. But business learnings might actually be the most fun part about going to a conference that has a focus on business. Less so on.
This is how you set up the business or this is how you find a good accountant. Like, maybe fun.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: But I also think those are very appropriate for WordCamp. You know, the how to's, the how to get it. Your taxes done.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: You know, I mean, I suppose so, but it's. It's a lot more difficult because that singles out the audience quite differently.
You need to be a business owner for that type of topic to actually.
[00:38:08] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: And.
And then probably also somebody who's just starting and learning the ropes.
I think that's. That those types of organizational. How do. How do you do organizing your business?
I think there's a crowd for it, but I think it's a very small one if I'm. If I'm really honest.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: I always think back to Lisa Saban Wilson sharing how she got Aqua hired to web dev studios, which she shared at pressnomics. And maybe you were at that one.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: I think so. 2015.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: I think it was 2015. And yeah. Yeah. And she like that story. She gave a lot of how tos in that story because she was also sharing her story. So I think that. I love that because then there can be a little bit of a tidbit and we all get it. You know, we've all been around the block and we know a thing or two. But how many times have you ever gone back to, like a fundamental class or something just to, like, help out your friend and support and you. They say something that you're like, oh, I've completely neglected that. I should have been doing that because, you know, we're. I don't think any of us are too proud to learn.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Well.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: And if you are. That you're. Then you are not in the right business. Because if the landscape, not just from the tech perspective, but all the things around it changes so much, even during the course of a year.
You need to be of a learning mind to even venture into this world. There's no way of kind of coasting it on just business intellect and just.
I'm gonna call it a day. But this is how I do it. That's not how it works. You need to be very much forcing yourself to learn and find.
Yeah, just.
Just the decisions on what tools to use. I think that alone, not only I think would be a great talk, but also there's so much to take into consideration in terms of what tooling am I using? And it's wild if you just approach it from that perspective.
So you had two event days. Did you have a specific intent for day one and day two, or was it essentially, I mean, how did you organize the sequence of speakers?
[00:40:39] Speaker B: I guess by the time we had our speaker lineup, which that was still being reiterated up until, I think even just maybe three weeks before it happened, we then just took look at the schedule.
I have to be careful not to skip integral moments, but we. So, like Carol Stambaugh is my speaker organizer, and we've all, a few of us have organized countless wordcamps together, like, just like you, Remkis. And so we do have our groove. So it's just like it was just like, you know, like looking at that schedule and just start, like, kind of kanban ing it, you know, like, let's put this speaker here.
What do we think is going to be a strong opener for us? You know, having Sally open it up as the founder of pressnomics, you know, and that just made so much sense to start the entire thing off with her. Then went the biggest. Brought out our biggest guns. It is what it is to say that. But with Mary, you know, Mary and Matias right after that.
So that had something to do with it. We thought about, what do we want the talk before lunch to reflect? What do we want people to go to lunch ruminating in their minds, what do we want to come back from lunch with? We knew that had to be something like something that is a big attention grabber. Again, same thing with the last session. Day one, we ended with Karim because we really wanted everyone to have that entire evening to sit on what Karim was sharing with everybody.
And.
And then I love. Oh, I didn't talk about this. I still love the podcast idea and I would like to keep that for next year and.
But it'll. It'll change. It was so much fun. It was almost like getting a little, like, show at the end and. Yeah, and that was on purpose as well. Like, we knew that last talk is always one of the hardest talks of any conference, is the last one often skipped.
So we wanted it to be something that would be, again, an attention grabber, but also super entertaining.
Where you could just kind of turn your brain off and just watch.
And so that.
[00:43:02] Speaker A: I mean, there were dad jokes, there was fun conversation, there was sincere conversation, there were learnings, there were insights, there were some pokes shared.
There was many pokes. But, you know, Matt Medeiros is on stage. That.
That's. That needs to happen.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: It's what it is, 100%. It was so good. I love it. I mean, I keep hearing to people what resonate with people is how much they heard cursing on stage. And I. I'm about it, like, you know, it's. It's just as comfortable and. And we're up there sharing real raw feelings, and sometimes cursing comes with those feelings and. And I knew Matt would come with it with the cursing. So.
[00:43:45] Speaker A: Yeah, he never lets you down, does he?
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Nope.
But yeah, they. Those talk. Everything about those talks, that was exactly how we looked at all of them is like, what makes sense, where should it.
Should it go and why? And I really felt like we knocked it out of the park with where we placed everything.
[00:44:06] Speaker A: I would agree. I would agree. I don't think I've ever thought, like, don't make it a lot of sense to do this in this sequence. Or, I mean, other than me not liking to be the first one, but.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: I mean, like, I just said it was on purpose.
Yeah.
You are who you are.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: Something else, huh?
[00:44:25] Speaker B: You are who you are.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
I don't always see it that way myself, so I just have to take your word for that, for that part. But you did something on the media side of things that's. I don't think I've ever seen at any event. You had Christian Taylor and Mark Zeminski, two young guys. Christian is 23, I think, and yeah, Mark is 27. 28. 29. 29, I think.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: I think he's 29. Yeah.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Two young guys, quite active on the social, specifically YouTube.
You had them?
I don't know, maybe. How about you explain what they actually did? So it's not me filling in the blanks, but you actually, like, what was the intent with that?
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Yeah, honestly, it's a few things.
One, I have a very young soul and often I feel like it's a curse, but I love having an aspect of press comp that was like, so youthful and so fun and just for funsies. That's a really. In fact, I feel like that's like our, like, feature organizing category will be our just for funsies category, because that's one of something I say a lot and I.
So that's One part. The other part is we all know we need to attract more youth in WordPress. We all know that. Like, why does Gen Z not care about owning your own data? And, you know, they could give a rat's behind whether or not they use. Yeah, yeah. And so to me, the other part of that is, like, we need to invite more youth to, you know, to WordPress. And one could describe Press conf as a big kids conference, you know, as opposed to a word camp. And I say that with all love and respect for each aspect.
And so, like, why not invite the more younger side to the big kids table? And. And then something I think that is only going to grow and get bigger is the YouTube space.
And there's so many WordPress personalities on YouTube that are not fully part of the community.
And from both Mark and Christian, I've seen them desire to be part of the WordPress community and have on their own, created a presence in the community.
So, of course I want to, you know, bring that in.
There's been times that I've reached out to other YouTubers that are adjacent to the WordPress community as well, and they're just.
There just doesn't seem to be a fit. And this wasn't for press comp. This was for, like, different endeavors that I've done.
And so, yeah, that was really a big part of it. And when I commissioned them, it was like, guys, I want to see fun. I want to see that the same videos are getting the views on YouTube. That's what I want to see created, you know, and I want to see you guys running around being fun, just being random with people. And, you know, like, one of my things is, like, you know, having like. Like literally doing cartwheels. That's just what I love to do. This is like my little thing. And so it's like that figurative, like, you know, like cartwheel energy, you know, is. Let's get some of that. Because I want to make it attractive. I want to make our. We already are attracted to our community as. As we've all gotten there. We all have our own story, but because we have this deficit, then let's. Let's target that. And Christian, this is. I just can't even believe this. I was. I was a baby, So I was 20 when my first one came. He's now 22. Christian's a year older than him. I'm like, oh, my God, I cannot be your mom. Christian, get out of here.
Yeah, they were so much fun.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: I have a son who's 27. Now. So, yeah, same. Same logic went in my head. Like, what?
[00:48:32] Speaker B: That is so crazy.
[00:48:35] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I think they were a great fit. They were a great addition.
And I think it gave it.
I don't know, it gave it a modern approach.
So the sessions weren't recorded, but a lot of stuff around it was.
I think that mix was perfect because Christian did interviews in the courtyard with a few people.
Mark had mini record or essentially just shoved a camera in somebody's face. Like obviously not without consent.
Yeah. And rapport with the person, but essentially here. What do you think of this, like, impromptu type of questions? I think that was fun. It was fun to watch. It was fun to collect people's ideas and thoughts and impressions as they just happened.
Yeah, I think they were a great addition to the event.
It certainly made it more modern to me.
[00:49:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. We had some parameters, too, because we. We basically even the ballroom was available for recordings and things. And basically our rule was as soon as the speaker hit the podium and as soon as questions ended, then it was free. Free reign for recording.
And because we. Exactly what you just said. We wanted to get some organic reactions from the attendees inside the ballroom, outside the ballroom, and we wanted some footage, you know, for future anythings, but really wanted to, like, protect that time for the speaker's actual talk. So there's a little bit of parameters, but I. It worked out really well, I think.
[00:50:25] Speaker A: I agree. I think. I think it worked out really well.
Last question.
What is the.
Actually two questions.
There's going to be a next one. I'd love to learn when that is and where people need to go to start subscribing to newsletters and whatnot, be updated.
What is the biggest change you'll make for the next event?
We kind of touched it, but I haven't heard you say anything very specific, and I'm pretty sure you have a very specific thing.
[00:51:06] Speaker B: Oh, God.
Well, okay. The easy answers.
So press Conf Events is the site and the only thing stopping us from announcing right now is just waiting for the hotel to get back to me to confirm dates.
So I will say that the date we're asking for is available. So just waiting for that contract to come back and then announce roughly in what month?
Roughly in the spring still same place. Okay.
[00:51:37] Speaker A: Okay. No month.
Yeah.
[00:51:41] Speaker B: Okay.
I could say still April, more than likely early April. And the hard part is now is, you know, there's just certain months you need, you can't really touch. Word on the street from the Dutch community is we need to stay away from January. And February, but also that February does conflict with WordCamp Asia. Usually I'm assuming it's going to conflict. So we want to be mindful of that and then also try to be mindful of cloudways.
I have a little tinge of, like, I guess I'm sorry. Yes, sorry. Cloudfest. Correct. I just had a meeting with cloudways today that my brain's all messed up, but cloud fest.
So I try to keep some padding there.
So, yeah, so that's kind of where the dates land.
And right now is very much that time of reflection. So I've been doing so much thinking about how it went, what went well, and I've struggled a little bit with thinking it went a little too well. Like, I almost wish something was a little rough, but like you said, there's absolutely always ways to improve, even when things do go really well. And so, like, I did share, you know, specifically, like, having more time in between sessions or just even more time for talking, networking, and.
But it's really hard to say exactly what would be so drastically different.
There's little fun things. Like, I know I could just crack up at golf. And because, like, our golf option, there was only like 14 of us, and I would had to go because none of the organizers wanted to, but it was such a silly golf course. And now I just feel like this made for such a. A storytelling in the future of, like, just this golf course was literally on the brink of dying. Literally. It was about to close, and Because I waited too long to book.
Is that. Dude, is that why? I don't even know why.
[00:53:50] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah, I think Mark said it. They are about to go bankrupt, if they already haven't.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: That is so funny. But it was just because of availability. That was really the reason why we chose the course, which is a little bit of a planning faux pas of not getting that locked in sooner. But. But they.
It just. There's just next year, we got to be a little bit more bougie with the golf option, and I would like to add disc golf as an option. So we might be doing three different options next year. We'll see.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:54:23] Speaker B: That is. But otherwise, like I said, I think the biggest thing I think about is, like, our speaker selection, you know, is we got a lot of good names this year, and I want to come with it next year as well.
And so do we do repeats year after year? Probably not.
But now where do we go from here?
So it's really hard to pinpoint something very specifically different, but just know that I'm Thinking about it a lot.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: So I knew the answer was going to be, there's no one specific thing, which is why I asked a question.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: If I had it, I would say it. I just like.
[00:55:04] Speaker A: I know, I know, I know.
[00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I think the. The VIP days were fun. I went karting.
Unfortunately, I got vertigo.
[00:55:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: Eight, eight, seven, eight rounds.
[00:55:19] Speaker B: I heard.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I needed to make a. An evasive move because somebody ran into the wall and I didn't want to ram into them, so I moved the other way. And for some reason, my head was like, no, you're not.
So I got real nauseous and spinning in my head. But still. Still was a lot of fun. So.
No, but I think that's a good sign. There's no drastic changes, and I wouldn't expect you to do so much. I think I like the idea of the hallway track a little bit more. Turn into a hallway track. I think that's a good one.
And as a closing note, may I offer one piece of advice to something to add to next year?
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: Use a gong like a.
Oh, that's funny.
[00:56:13] Speaker B: The team's already been talking about that.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: At the end of the breaks.
[00:56:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:19] Speaker A: Because some people were way back in the courtyard and they just kind of missed that something started.
[00:56:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: And they came dripping in later.
Plus, it's fun to hit a gong, so, you know.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: Yes, I remember that from Word Camp Netherlands. The gong.
[00:56:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:56:33] Speaker B: And. And I do think that the vibration from a gong is more ex. Our bodies appreciate it more than like a cowbell, you know?
[00:56:42] Speaker A: Oh, for sure.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I like it.
[00:56:45] Speaker A: Cool. Cool.
Well, I think I'm. I'm. I mean, I have way more questions. We can turn this in a two hour thing, but I want to thank you for. For, for bearing with me through all the rescheduling.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:57:04] Speaker A: For this recording.
I lost a tooth somewhere in the process, so, you know, there was good reason.
But most of all, I want to thank you for appearing on. On the podcast again, explaining your.
Your experience.
Not explaining, talking about your experience.
[00:57:23] Speaker B: Yeah, always.
[00:57:26] Speaker A: All right, then.
Thanks so much and we'll talk soon.
